How to Stop Killing Your Campaign: What We’ve Learned About Successful Campaigns At Perfect Audience

The goal of advertising is always the same; to drive business, sales, or conversions. You need conversions to make money. You need impressions to lead to conversions.

At Perfect Audience, we get a birds-eye view of online advertising. We are uniquely situated to see what is and what is not working for a variety of companies across several industries. That’s how we’ve been able to pinpoint the things that actually matter to your campaign’s success, as well as the things that don’t.

In the video below, Eric Stockton, General Manager of Perfect Audience, and Jalali Hartman, AI Lab Director, share the tactics they have seen get results time and time again.

View the slide deck:




Hey, everybody, welcome, and thanks for joining us. I’m Kathleen from Perfect Audience. And today, we’re going to be talking about how to stop killing your campaign. So we’re super happy you guys are here. We are just gonna go ahead and get started.


Today, joining us, we have Eric Stockton is our general manager at Perfect Audience, he’s been in that online advertising business for a number of years and has, in the past, built a lot of sales organizations and been in charge of some, some large budgets. So we are super happy that he’s here today, and he’s gonna bring us a lot of information. And then Jalali’s also joining us. Jalali Hartman is both the AI Lab Director for us at Perfect Audience and he also is the founder of Robauto. And he’s just done, a lot of, he’s been in a lot of successful startups and he also has been in the online advertising industry for a number of years, so. Thanks, both of y’all for joining.


Today we wanted to get started with just talking about, top of line, what is the goal of your campaign? To understand kind of how to have a successful campaign and how to stop doing things that are not helping you be successful, we kind of have to start at the beginning of what’s the point of what you’re doing. And I’m going to hand off to Eric, and he’s kind of going to jump into that for us.


Yeah thanks. So happy to be here. This is fun I always enjoy when we sit down and we kind of talk through some of these things and one of the things that we were talking about a couple of days ago when we were gearing up for this panel and this webinar was how we have so many advertisers that we see on a daily basis running thousands and thousands of campaigns that are in flight, we see a lot of what’s happening to those campaigns, we see a lot of what’s working and what’s not working. And so when we talked about how those campaigns are working, we sort of sliced and diced it and came up with some very simple observations of really successfully run campaigns. Sort of if you think about it, like at the top end of the spectrum there’s the really successful campaigns that are running and then there is, you know, there’s sort of the opposite end of the spectrum where they’re really ineffective or wasted dollars being spent. And so we, what we did is we put them into a few slides that you’re going to see here.


So you know, at the end of the day, everybody that’s on this call, and I see that. you keep joining and you know, looks like there’s a bunch of people that are coming on and this is, you know, as people are coming on we’ll talk through some of these things. But we’re all here for the same reason right? We’re all here to be able to drive more conversions, get more sales, drive more revenue, build our businesses right? And really we, on our side, like if I’m just putting myself in your shoes, I’ve been in your shoes, I’ve been a business owner. And Jalali, you know, has been a business owner so you know, we sort of very much identify with pretty much everybody that’s on this call. We’re all trying to figure out what works. We’re trying to figure out how to do more of that. We’re trying to figure out what doesn’t work and we’re trying to figure out like, how you know, of those things that aren’t working, how to cut them out as quickly as possible so that we’re spending the right dollars in the right way.


So that’s what really this is all about. And I think we’ll just sort of dive right in. So the next slide is really what we’re finding in the top end of the spectrum. So these are things where at the core, we’re trying to identify what are the core characteristics that makes for a successful campaign. So we’ve talked about this in previous webinars. It is very easy to get lost in the weeds if you don’t know what your KPIs are right? If you don’t have those established KPIs up front and those numbers are what you know, sort of drives all of your other decision making as you build out your campaigns, there’s a limited amount of time in the day right? So what ends up happening is you know, we got 12-14 hours whatever it is in front of our computer every day. And we can be working on a number of different things. And what I find, unfortunately, and by the way I’m guilty of this too. I mean, I think you know Jalali would probably nod his head and say yeah, I’m probably guilty of this too. Where it’s very easy to miss the forest for the trees right?


So what we end up doing is we spend a lot of time working on these tactics. Signing up for all these different types of tools, building new websites right? And looking at different ways to be able to grow our business. And we’re doing it without a lens to focus through. So you know, sort of taking a step back, zooming back out, looking at what the most important, like what are the most important things that I need to do for my business to be able to grow my revenue to the next level right? And what are those numbers and then sort of backing you way into that with, I need in order to get this number of sales right? I need to do, or sorry get this amount of revenue, I need to do this many sales. I need to have this, my average order value, or this many leads depending on what business you’re in you know? I need to have this amount of traffic right? I have to have this many conversions right? And so what are those key things that you need to hone in on?


Get that really right? And you know I’ve joked about this before. But you know, I’ve seen some of the most successful people just have those KPIs like a little post-it , like an aged post-it that’s up on their monitor and that’s all they look at or all they care about right? So that’s just for people’s education. What is KPI exactly? So those are Key Performance Indicators right? So these are the numbers, the metrics that we as marketers or business owners are looking at on a daily basis, the drive the revenue forward or drive the business forward. So yeah, that’s great. That’s actually a great point.


So just sitting on, so like Kathleen and Eric, for example running a funnel right? Now what’s an example of a KPI that you’re watching, that you’re trying to adjust? Just give everybody an idea.


Yeah, so a real, what’s that, a key metric that if you could just change it, would make a fundamental difference in the campaign or the business. Like what is your most important thing that you’re looking at. Yeah it’s a great question. So I’ll give you a real life example. So this afternoon at four o’clock, two hours from now, I’m gunna be sitting down with our PPC agency. And in that PPC agency conversation we’re going to be talking about the types of leads that are coming into Perfect Audience, into our sales funnel. So if you are an existing customer of Perfect Audience, and many of you are. And I see people keep adding, keep coming on to the cal. There’s a sales funnel that we have, a marketing funnel right, that you come into, you sign up, you give us some basic information, and you give us your credit card information and you know, we send you your account login information etc etc.


So one of the things that this afternoon we’re going to be talking about is, are we driving the right kind of people into our sales funnel? So what I mean by that is, we know that there are advertisers that use Perfect Audience and have a lot of success and we know who those people are. We know those, the types of people that they are. And one of the things that we are looking at very closely, is we are driving more of the people that have a lot of success within Perfect Audience, and you know, a great example would be domestic US customers versus international customers right? So we have different conversion rates based on, if you’re a domestic US customer versus you know, somebody who comes on as an international customer from another country. Maybe they perform or they behave differently, or they have a different level of a success within Perfect Audience. So we want to focus on the people that are going to have the most success. And we spend a lot of time working on those people right?


Honing in, finding those kinds of people and driving those, you know I can talk all day about things like conversion rates and click-through rates and you know other metrics, and we can, we’re going to get into some of that here in a few minutes. But you know, at the end of the day my KPI that I’m measuring for Perfect Audience is going to be, the correct number of account signups on a monthly basis right? That’s at the end of the day, like all the other stuff that’s happening, like there’s millions of data pieces or points and tactics and tools and people that are all working towards the same goal. Which is bringing on more people who have a good experience within Perfect Audience.


And so that, you know, it all sort of rolls up to that right? So there’s lots of things but they all really roll up that one thing and that’s really all I pay attention to right? So it really sort of simplifies your marketing strategy when you say, this is the lens through which I am focusing and then all of the other things that I am doing, if I’m doing the right things they’re going to impact that number in the right way.


That’s great. Yeah so, Jalali, you were talking earlier about how people tend to sort of get lost in the forest for the trees right? I mean so what in this particular slide, we were specifically talking about that. People get lost by thinking they need new creative or they need a new website or a new design or what have you. Do you wanna briefly touch on that?


Yeah and it’s really the hardest. So that is exactly kind of what. you’ve been talking about. knowing the right things to pick to work on. It’s really the marketer’s job at this point right? There’s automation that does a lot of stuff. You have to have a sense of credit, but like how do you know what’s really like working, what’s really not working is the first thing. And I think we get tripped up ourselves so we have a full professional team and analysts running stuff. Machine learning, writing, and like we still get tripped like this was not what we thought was happening. I think a good example is, so this, Eric’s come in, the first part of this year and trying to turn this marketing phone around, this whole company, and when you’re starting like, I think you would agree, you kind of started on the top of the funnel you know? How do we get more people signed up or trying it or in? And then it moved to, okay well actually we actually found a lot of those people were like just bots themselves or there was junk in there or it was like people that were thought they were signing up for one thing and it was another thing. Or they just didn’t understand the language you know whatever.


And so then it’s a process of kind of optimizing that now, kind of what he’s talking about is okay, like really going deep deep deep and figuring out who’s working, like who is that customer that we need that this is going to work for and then go back out to the funnel and say okay, well let’s adjust and adjust and adjust because what’s Eric’s trying to do and he’s gradually scaling up, scaling up. What he’s trying to do is he’s trying to get it to the math or work out right. And so Eric’s a good example. He’s very experienced. That’s a good example of someone that can take all these million things and, trust me, if you saw his day and his, what he’s kind of, what he’s doing all these million things going on, and zeroing in, okay like it’s just this. And that’s what you guys need to think about. It’s like okay, holidays are coming up. It’s going to be, it already is a record online year. Yeah. A lot of our business, I don’t know what you guys, but like we’re kind of supplementing the changes that happen in the world with online like, doing a better job online.


So now is the time to do that. And we’re going to talk a little bit about being zoomed in on the data. But I think that’s kind of coming. Like I think that’s a big thing. But it’s just, it’s clarity guys, it’s like what are the metrics of matter, what are the ones that I can impact and then what are the tactics what will impact those metrics? And so that’s kind of where we’re going to get into some examples here in a second.


Yeah that’s right. So kind of what we have coming up here is specifically, what you know, what works, what can you do to be successful? So I’ll hand that over to you Jalali. Yeah, so and it, we have, I have an opportunity here. So I sit in the middle of a lot of campaigns so, people coming and wanting optimization and you see all kinds of different things. But there’s some common thing, common themes right that you always have to make sure. This first one is tracking and analytics installed. And I would say also, like you have a basic understanding of your funnel and what those analytics are showing. So we have a tag, a Perfect Audience that has a tag that you put on your website and then tracks, and that’s how you do, you re-market people. There’s all a variety of these kind of little snippets of code that you put on there are going to give you a picture of this funnel. We use Google analytics a lot. We use our own kind of metrics and create funnels, show how people should be moving through, what we’d expect and then make sure that it’s actually happening.


The next one is kind of testing multiple ads and campaigns and I can’t stress that enough, never once has the first campaign that I’ve designed worked the best right? So I’ve never guessed it out of the box like my optimal funnel and it’s always come from just actually testing and iterating. Usually what happens is not only does the message change a little, that product or that value statement changes a little right? As you’re kind of going but we thought it was, people want to do retargeting but it’s actually they want to do more than retargeting or we thought it was my good customer service that people like. But it’s actually the low prices right? there’s a lot of stuff that you can learn and then kind of keepings things refreshed. Like we’ve all seen there is a frequency kind of equation where you see the same thing over and over. That’s kind of a brand, like branding is you know, but when it comes to marketing campaigns and advertising campaigns, particularly retargeting where. you’re hitting people back over and over which is kind of the point of it. There is a point where they’re just tired of seeing the same message or you get kind of blind to it right? You’re like, I’ve already seen that a million times. Like I’m not clicking again. And so just keeping things creative can be a great, or a refresh can be a great tactic. Low cost. But again, just think about your like, l literally just tested multiple ads and games actually. All of us on here, we start our days with reviewing the funnels that we have in our lives right? In our jobs.


It’s like we have all these things with start points and end points and we’re just trying to find the ways of kind of make it work right? And so I’m sure a lot of you guys will like that as well. Here it’s kind of your marketer’s life right now. So yeah, yup. I think that’s right. I mean there’s a significant just sort of tying back to what I was saying at the beginning of the conversation. There’s a significant amount of things that we can do and what we’re seeing is in this particular slide. That the ones that are having the most success across thousands and thousands of our campaigns that are running right now as we’re talking. We’re getting this data in, we’re seeing what’s happening, what’s working, what’s not working. And these are sort of like the three things that rise to the top, that are common across the more successful of the campaigns. And then obviously you know, if you at these as a high level, then you know, if you can always drill down one layer deeper right, you know, it’s like peeling an onion underneath. It’s like why is the tracking and analytics important right? I mean, we just talk about that one as opposed to something else.


So you know, if I’m using Google for PPC for example, Google ads or if I’m using Facebook, there’s a lot of prospecting activity that tends to happen right? They’re trying to match up my audiences to the offer that I have. And they’re trying to optimize, they’ve got lots of machine learning and things happening in the background to try to optimize for a specific metric. Whether it’s clicks or conversions or what have you. There’s lots of different ways to slice that. And you know, what ends up happening in this particular case for Perfect Audience, we do the exact same thing. What the tag does in this particular case in the analytics, is it’ll also allow us to be able to understand who is converting on your website and then we use that algorithm and machine learning and everything else to be able to hone in on who your perfect customer is right?


So you want to, you’re driving good customers. We want to be able to find more of those good customers and drive more of them that would have already proven that they have generated sales for you right? We want to find more of them and so that’s what this is. What the tracking and analytics does. But yeah, I mean you could do that for each one of these check marks right? You could drill down one or two layers deeper you know and find the reasons why these common threads for success are happening in these top 20 of the campaigns. And then that’s the top end of the spectrum. And the next slide talks about, sort of the other end of the spectrum. So the inverse is also true right? So you know, if you think about it, like if all the people that are most successful are doing these things, the ones that are most unsuccessful are obviously not doing those things right?


So if you think about the ones that aren’t testing, aren’t installing their analytics, they’re not really understanding what’s happening in their campaigns. They’re sort of like blindly spending money on advertising. And we do have a fair share of those types of advertisers right? They’re just sort of blindly spending. We really do counsel and coach, you know the advertisers that work with us, there are better ways to do things or better ways to improve your campaigns and get more bang for your buck as you’re spending. But the objective really is, you know, if you really sort of like, just simplify it, you know, just not doing these things it will get you 70% or 80% of the way there right? So. you know, making sure that you do have a tag, you know making sure that you do have you know, different types of ad sizes taking advantage of the total amount of inventory that’s across the web that you can advertise on just gives you a chance to be able to get out in front of more of your customers, more of your perfect customers more often. And so those are, that’s sort of the inverse. And then Jalali do you want to talk about the sort of the bottom half of what these campaigns are doing?


Yeah so the most common thing, you really hit it with that, the tag, the tracking. I don’t think we need to, I’m going to go over that again, but the, so send a traffic to a landing page with no call to action. So if I call that, actually you need some clear conversion and it really ties to that, the tag or the tracking right? There’s two reasons that that’s not good. First of all, you’re optimizing the top of the funnel and you’re sending people into something that probably is not going to give you any activity right? Because there is no clear thing you want people to do. It’s great for branding but it’s not going to probably give you the leads you need. So you kind of get this false positive or negative route. Do you think the campaign’s not working when in reality the ad part is working great. It’s just you’re not converting them. The other problem that creates for you, is as Eric mentioned, a lot of those algorithms and engines and stuff, they’re looking for that conversion result as a positive indicator that it’s working right? So if you have no tracking setup and you have no call to action, it’s like this machine just running trying to figure out and there’s no goal associated with it. So it’s gunna have a hard time. The second one, and this one, I’m really passionate about this, weekly budget set below 100k or $100 a week rather, that’s a common one.


So I’m guilty of it right? Like nobody wants to see their ad dollars go out the window right? You just even, I don’t, I never get a stomach for it right? So even when you’re spending these big campaigns and you just know like half of it’s working, but you’re just wasting the other half right? So we get in these modes of this is my budget right? My budget is $100 a week and that’s what I’m willing to, almost like gambling. And that’s kind of the wrong way to look at it right? There is no budget. The budget is, once you get that funnel working, then you can kind of scale it up. You’ve seen all those crazy Facebook ads with the guys talking about scale on this phone, that’s what he’s doing. So that’s a weekly budget set below $100 a week right? That’s fine. It’s not really the amount that matters as much. And that’s a lot to test something new with. But if you kind of do the math on it, it’s only $14 a day. So if, let’s say your cost per click is like 50 cents, you’re only going to get 20 or so clicks a day. And it’s just not enough to test it or figure it out typically right? It’s for certain applications. It might work but you kind of get in this mode of like, the systems aren’t designed for much larger bursts of traffic, big data sets being collected quickly. So you just have to be kind of cognizant. It’s not a bad place to start. in fact, I think that’s where we start. By default we offer $100 credit for everybody.


And they kind of play around with that. It’s just you’re zoomed in very tight on this system when you set that $100 a week. So again, get out of the dollar amount mode and we’re guilt of it two, like I think it’s like we have these budgets set for the year, when in reality if we start to get the funnel working we should be increasing right? Like we should be, it’s a profitable endeavor I think.


Yeah I mean, to that maybe another way to look at that is you know, there is a certain period of time where you know, you are trying to dial in and figure out how to put money in the top of this funnel that you have. You’re putting a hundred dollars in and you’re getting $125 or $150 out right? And then once you hit that optimal way of turning a dollar into $25 then you don’t stop there right? I mean that’s not like, you don’t, you know if you can make $25 for every $100 that you spend, which is essentially what I just said right, put $100 in and you get $125 out. So if you can make $100 if you make $25 for every $100 that you spend, why would you limit yourself, right? Instead then we talk about things like, we use words like scale right? So we say okay, well at what point does it not make me my $25 for every $100 I put in right? And that in and of itself, even like you know if you think about it, that’s not where you stop either right? What you’re doing is you’re constantly pushing on all the levers that make. your campaigns more effective you know? Increasing every single sort of micro adjustment in your funnel, a little bit of conversion increase here yields big dollars at the end of the process.


So you know, how do you take it from $100 for making $25 for every $100 that you spend, to you know, making $40 for every $100 that you spend right, and then dialing that up right? So you know, you should be able to say, okay well if I can spend a thousand dollars right and I can make you know $250 for every $1,000 dollars I spent, I need to be dialing that correctly. And scaling that up right? And these campaigns, you would be shocked. Like I see so many of these campaigns that you know, once they figured it out, once they’ve tested and they’ve spent the time right, and they’ve figured out how to dial things in properly, these things are just, you know it’s amazing to watch right? I mean you’ll see, I mean we have campaigns that spend you know, ten thousand dollars a week, and they’re sort of like, it’s almost like a predictable pattern of what happens on the other end with conversions and then what those conversions do when they lead to sales or your sales revenue. Just really kind of keeping that in mind. And so Jalali cane at it from one perspective saying okay, well here’s sort of like, what is, you know, probably shouldn’t be doing right? It’s limiting yourself and then I’m coming at it from the other perspective saying, figure it out as quickly, we’re saying the same thing. We’re just coming at it from a different perspective. But you know, come at it, figure out how to dial things in as quickly as you can right? And then turn it up right? Scale it up.


Yeah that’s right. So Jalali, to jump back into kind of the optimization part of this, I’m going to kind of move on to our next slide. I know you had spoken a lot about how the observation kind of just needs those. they need those clicks. They need those conversions to kind of run. They can’t learn anything if they don’t have that data. So I’m gunna, do you want to expand on that a little bit more?


Yeah this is a problem that we’re trying to solve today actually. So this is a real customer. It’s, I won’t tell you who the brand is, but it’s someone that you’ve all bought from probably. And it’s a large product feed, so about a million SKUs or something getting fed over to us. And what the task has been is match this other network. So match the metrics of another network and we will move over our spin from there, or give you guys some of the spend and experiment with your network right? So that’s great. The problem is we’re about ten times off in terms of cost per click, so they want a cost of like five cents or ten cents. We’re at like a dollar. Okay so that’s the problem and so what the kind of way that we’re approaching it, you kind of see the big blue chart is the impressions. This is the Perfect Audience dashboard. We see we spent $75. The green line is the cost per click. So our goal is to get that cost per click down to more like under 25 cents. So we did a whole bunch of lever pulling right on the back and he said okay, we’re going to serve this ad more to these people and this, so all these difference things we”re trying to bring it down but this is the problem with this kind of point I want to make. So we’re trying to compare to a campaign that spends five thousand dollars a day with a campaign that we’re testing out about $50 a day right?


So the problem is this, is the two data sets are not going to equate. One might actually be worse or better. We don’t actually know, but the problem is, if you’re looking at this and you’re trying to pull these levers and you’re saying okay, we can’t get close, we can’t get close, but it doesn’t even remotely compare because if you have a million ads out there, million products in your feed and you only have like fifty dollars against it. You might not even be showing the best ads. Like it’s just so zoomed in and so small scale. So the challenge is, how do you test and like, kind of approximate this you know? So Eric do you have a thought on that?


Yeah I, not all of us on this call are gunna have a million products in our catalog, and in some sense that’s a really good thing right? You know, it makes it much easier to achieve a measurable good return on your ad spend. Especially you know, let’s, this is a B to approach. If I’m just thinking about it from a B to B perspective, maybe I’ve only got one offer right? And I’ve only got one, you know, I’ve got my ad creatives and you know I’m trying to convert as many leads as I possibly can. Or I’m trying to capture you know, more emails to grow my email list. The list sort of goes on from a B to B perspective. What’s interesting to me is the vast majority of the campaigns that I see, and these are live campaigns that we watch every day. It’s a lot more achievable to get to. Get enough data and get enough scale to get good results. This is a particularly big customer that is a very large catalog and lots of difference types of products, lot of different creatives and this is more complex. But I think the good news for probably everybody on this call, not many of us, maybe some of us on the call but not everybody really is going to have that level of sort of depth in their catalog. So you can get there faster is my point.


It’s really the advantage they have over a small business. A company like this has an advantage that they can get the answer faster. Yeah, and that’s really all the advantage is because it’s the same thing. It’s the same network, the same ads. Everybody has the same, they are just able to kind of figure out and optimize quick because they’re running so much volume. So just as smaller companies and organizations at a small scale and that’s what we’re going to do with this one getting working at a relatively small scale even though it’s harder right? It’ll be harder. We can figure out what is going to drive those costs down to what we need. Systematically start adding more volume and it should kind of work. It’d be great to just turn it on. Run them full volume for a couple days. We’d get the answer faster right? But they don’t want to do that. they want to see how our thing works. And so in a lot of ways, that’s what everybody’s trying to do, is just do a little test, get it working, none of these metrics are bad per se. There’s not where this advertiser needs it, and so we need to find a way to get there without the big set of data that they have. So that’s basically the point here with that one.


Yeah no, thanks Jalali, and kind of going, jumping back to the beginning of that, what you, that point you were making, we kind of mentioned why having a landing page with no call to action is not ideal and so just to give you guys a visual on the call here, here’s an example of a lower converting landing page because as you can see, there isn’t a call to action. So Jalali kind of came at it from an optimization point of view. If there’s no goal then the system can’t optimize for that ad, but here’s kind of a visual, like a user experience type of view of this. Just it makes sense if your page doesn’t have a goal in mind, then your user is not going to know what to do. So this is obviously something to avoid, but this is just a visual example of that. So we’ll just leave that there for you guys.


Well actually these are some interesting, yeah sure, so this is interesting to me right? People tend, and we talk about this alot on different webinars and things that we write, videos that sort of thing, people tend to optimize and market sometimes in a vacuum right? Instead of a holistic approach. And the fact is that you know, you cannot create a great set of ads that are going to give you a great click-through rate and great, you know, number of clicks and then have them go to a landing page that has either disconnected from the ads that you created. In other words, you’ve got different graphics, different kinds of messaging, different value propositions. You just confuse the person who has already shown that they’re interested based on the ad that they just clicked on, then they go to a landing page and they’re like what is this. This isn’t what I thought. I clicked on and then they leave right? They bounce and then you know, that’s reflected in bounce rates and lack of conversion and whatnot.


So that’s part of it and then the other part of it is, there’s literally nothing on this page that tells me what to do next right? And nothing against Delta, I mean Fly Delta, and you know great, but you know, when I’m looking at this and I have an ad that takes me to this page right? I am trying to understand as a user that was interested, I’ve shown you that I was interested. I go to the page and now I’m just stuck like what do I do next, like I’m not a customer I don’t know, maybe there’s nothing for me to do right? So what do I do? I bolt right? I’m busy, I got things to do. It looked like it was interesting that I’m gunna go and try to like root around and try to figure it out. So that’s interesting like that we saw on these, and in our last webinar, not our last webinar but another one we’ve done on ads and landing pages, we saw a ton of landing pages where they do have a call to action. It’s just not above the fold you know? You can’t see it without scrolling down. And kind of like what you said, they’re going to leave and they’re not going to get to that point. So it’s almost as if it’s not there. So I just, the only takeaway I would have with this one is, make sure you do have a holistic approach when you’re building your ad creative when you’re building a marketing initiative. A new campaign. Make sure everything flows seamlessly right? From the ad creative to the audience, you’re trying to get in front of, right, all the way through to the landing page and the conversion funnel.


Yeah. no, that’s great Eric. So I’m just going to move on to our next slide here. And leadership is basically specifically about retargeting. If you want to expound on these a little bit. Yeah so these are two stats that came from Kinsta. And Kinsta is a web hosting company and you can sort of read it for yourself here, but you know, basically what they’re saying is that 70% of your retargeting makes it 70% more likely that somebody is going to convert. Because if you think about it it makes sense right? These are people that have already come in contact with your brand. They’ve already come in contact with your website. They’ve had to have visited your website in order to qualify as retargeting right? And so they’ve seen your messaging. They’ve seen who you, what you are about, and they’ve, for whatever reason, they’ve left your site and in this particular scenario I mean, again, just thinking about it logically, what happens is you know, if you put an ad in front of the people that have already visited your site, and had a good experience, maybe they didn’t buy from you, but they had a good experience, they sort of liked your brand and they liked your messaging, and they for whatever reason left. They went to making this up, but or or somewhere else, and they’re out there and they’re carrying on with their life right? Three days, four days later and they see an ad for your brand right? And the likelihood of that person coming back to your site after they’ve already had a good experience once, is much much higher right? So that’s what that 70% is all about. And then you know, the other number is 147% right? We can throw big numbers at you and everything but really what this boils down to is that if you are retargeting right, you can increase the average conversion rates by up to 147%. Or maybe some I’ve seen higher. I’ve seen lower rate, but you know this stat specifically if you know, specifically around your conversion rates right? So conversion rate is everything at the end of the day. Whether it’s conversion rate to a lead or a conversion rate to an email that you want to add to your list for other marketing purposes to grow your list conversion rate obviously to a sale right?


So you know, when we’re talking about retargeting, Jalali says this a lot, oh I can’t remember if I don’ know, if I say it exactly the right way. But you know, basically retargeting is sort of the low-hanging fruit of the internet right? And if you think about it, that makes sense right? So if you think about your sales funnel or your marketing funnel, really all. you’re doing with, specifically with retargeting anyway, is you’re targeting the people and showing them ads that are most qualified, bottom of the funnel sort of people and so we all sort of know that retargeting is the most effective form of advertising. And these are numbers that sort of show that and prove that. And really I think the takeaway is that, at the end of the day, retargeting just, maybe you’re doing PPC, maybe you’re doing social media marketing, maybe you’ve got an email list that goes out once or twice a week. Maybe you’re dong other types of marketing and promotion. What retargeting does is it takes all of those other channels and all of those other tactics that you’re doing and makes them that much more effective.


Yeah no, that’s very true thanks Eric. So our next point that we wanted to make is this quote from Third Stage Marketing. And so they kind of outline what we previously talked about in some of our other slides, but we know that sometimes the budget isn’t negotiable. Some, I think a lot of people on this call are probably saying, well I don’t know, I don’t have that budget, so what do I do, like what can I do? And I think Jalali had some stuff that he wanted to add about that but kind of what you can do is test, right Jalali?


Yeah so really as kind of smaller marketers, the testing and bigger testing is the best thing you can do. There are incidentally , I’m sure you’ve seen the ads, a number of these new e-commerce funding companies that can tell from your e-commerce revenue if you can get funding and I think that’s a really smart use of capital. Once you have a funnel, go out and get some capital, additional capital to expand the funnel, but for those of you that can’t do that or don’t want to do that, testing is really what you have to work with right? So it’s how do I, and we were talking about funnels that we’re running and campaigns are running. It’s literally always just running a test, seeing how it compared, running the next one and actually the three of us on this call are working on different parts of our own funnel I guess. I so like, if you got an email for this campaign, for this webinar, it probably came from Kathleen. If you saw a certain Google ad or saw a certain keyword, probably Eric had a play in that. Like making sure that is optimal, but we’re doing a lot of testing. We get very advanced in that testing. It’s kind of something that we do, but. you can do it at a very small level. So there’s like a fire or something.


So you can do it at a very small level for pretty easily even with something as basic as a quick ad campaign. Like two different messages, which one get the higher click through. It’s nothing more than that. You don’t have to get scientific you know? Take the one that did best, make a whole, another campaign around that or expand the campaign and just repeat it. Actually it’s pretty fun right? Because you start to see the gains, you start to see things that weren’t working start to work. You’re like holy cow, this business concept that I had or this product that I bought a thousand units of it gunna work right? So again, I’ve never had success with the first campaign. Well, that’s not true. I’ve had campaigns that have worked. I’ve never had the optimal thing right off the gate, out of the gate. Alright, I’m at the Daytona 500 right now.


Awesome no, thanks. Yeah so that’s great. Like kind of that’s been the premise of this webinar is that you know, testing is everything. So if you have a follow-up question to that or just a question in general for Eric, Jalali or Perfect Audience as a platform in general, go ahead and throw that in the box on the bottom right corner of this call. And any, we might go through a couple at the end of the call but any that we don’t get to we can always do a follow-up video and then if you have kind of a more personalized question you’d rather just get someone to help you or reach out to us, you can always email


Yeah on that noteI’m willing to get on with people, especially members of my team and so on, just not even, it doesn’t have to be Perfect Audience even, just like let’s take 15 minutes, let’s look at your funnel, let’s see just based on all the stuff, millions of stuff that we’ve run, what could be it, what could give you gains? Be sure to take advantage of that. There’s no obligation. We do get pretty booked up, but it’s, we have time.


So sorry, yeah definitely. So while anyone is throwing their questions in the box, we’re gunna kind of talk through a couple things that we’re running right now. Michelle is our AI lab director which we kind of mentioned at the beginning. But this is something you can apply to be a part of if you’re interested. So Jalali, you want to take a stab at this?


Yeah this is really simple. And that you’ve, I’m sure you’ve heard like this whole AI, I think some of you probably know exactly what we’re talking about with that machine learning. Using big data sets and these, imagine these robots like running your campaigns and everything’s going to be rosy. Well it’s part true right? There’s a huge advantage right now to using machine learning to optimize your campaigns and so what we’re put together rather than like a black box where you give us money and we tell you we’re using AI to get you conversions. We’re looking for a handful of advertisers that have the kind of proven funnel so you kind of know what to expect. Maybe you have success going somewhere and it’s totally free, but there’s no charge for this. It’s just we’re gunna apply our algorithms to drive more conversions for. you. That’s really, and then this is really designed going into the busy holiday season. We’re already seeing like significant ramp ups and sales and conversions across all of our advertisers. Like using the absolute best machine learning against your conversion data to get you more sales. That’s basically what it is. So yeah, by all means, that’s a think that’s a great opportunity for certain people that have, maybe you’ve hit a plateau. Maybe you’re trying to get a little game. Maybe you just want to kind of get better at using the automation to get better results. So that’s kind of what happens.


If you, yeah I mean if you think about it, you know to Jalali’s point, I mean we are looking at this data on a daily basis. Like we look at these campaigns on a daily basis. We work with campaigns, not only within the AI lab, but just looking at campaigns and helping advertisers every day right? So there’s a level of expertise that comes along with that. And you you, just the idea that Jalali’s willing to open up the AI lab to be able to talk with people you know. I definitely would encourage you to take advantage of that. So we do have a couple questions coming in. We can go ahead and take these, this one, our first question is for smaller businesses specifically what would you recommend as a weekly budget for chess when testing a new ad campaign?


I’ll take that one. So that’s a great question. I think it’s gunna, without knowing your specific industry, without knowing anything else, I’m gunna sort of give you a general statement and then if you want to talk afterwards or something we can certainly just you know, throw your contact info in the chat box and we’ll get to it and give you a call. But it’s a function of a couple of things right? So it’s a function of the size of your audience and your website traffic that you have today. And you know it’s a function of whether or not you have sort of the right pieces in place. I would not recommend spending a bunch of money and this is probably the only person, I’m probably the only person that’ll ever tell you this you know, because like I don’t want your money. We do not want your money. If we can’t help you grow your business we don’t want you to waste your money. So the objective should be pretty well laid out. So you have an ad that works pretty well, that is testable and that you can take four or five, six hundred dollars or something like that and run against it. And then it goes to a landing page that has a clear call to action, that is going to and hopefully it’s proven that it has converted in the past. But even if it hasn’t, it’s a brand new funnel. You have some budget that you can put against it that drives traffic to the page to find out what, like how well it does convert right? You got to start somewhere right? So if you’re a brand new customer or a brand new advertiser, brand new business owner. You keep your budget relatively small right out of the gate until you have some of the basic best practices in place. Again, we can help. you go through those if you’d like. Or there’s plenty of web resources and things like that that are out there, that are available that can help you sort of get some of the basic blocking and tackling in place. But then once you do have it, then the objective is find out a lot in a short period of time and the best way to do that is to drive a relatively decent amount of traffic to your website, through your funnel to find out what’s working and what’s not working, what converts and where people are falling out. And then you know, you’re tweaking and adjusting as you go. The worst thing that I’ve sort of seen happen, and this is for like businesses that are VC funded and they get millions and millions of dollars, and they launch a new product or new company to a small startup. That is just getting, that’s bootstrapped and self-funded. The worst thing that I’ve, that I sort of see happen is where people you know, it’s like death by a thousand cuts right?


You know when we talk about businesses failing, usually it’s not one big catastrophic event. Usually it’s people aren’t sort of aggressive enough in the front end to figure out how it converts. To figure out how well it’s working. And then testing and optimizing as you go. Right, my rule of thumb if I’m running my own campaign for my own company or something, and if I was just talking to you as a friend at a bar somewhere, one of the things that I would tell you is, get it to the point where it’s break even, and then spend as much money as I can right? Because that additional traffic tells me much much more Right? And I learned so much faster and speed in any market, especially if your startup or your VC funded group or whatever. Speed is everything right? getting to the point, getting to a funnel that works, getting to, you know, if you’re a B to B company and you’re getting to the point where you’ve got enough leads coming in the door to feed your sales team right? Those kinds of things, like it took me six months to learn something that I could learn in one month and I had to spend twice as much money to do it. I would do it one month every single time right? Because I’m gunna know and then I’ve got five months right to figure everything else out right? I mean I have a bunch of data, I’ve got a bunch of knowledge and learnings that I can apply and that I can kind of keep iterating and keep making better. I’m going to be so far ahead compared to if I just waited and sort of plotted along over a six month period of time. So that’s typically where I see businesses just end up having a hard time is when they just wait too long to get the results they need. So that’t a long-winded way of answering it and again, having no idea what industry you’re in or anything else, I’d be happy to talk with you offline about that.


Yeah no thank you Eric. So Ron if you can send a private message here or you can always email in or find one of us on LinkedIn as well as all of those channels will work. So we can take one more question really quick. So we have a question from Lisa. She says how does this thinking apply to a new member recruitment campaign for a local business and I think by this thinking we’re talking about what you can do with your smaller budget and testing and all of that. Yeah, so local, so the question is how does this apply to a local business versus maybe like a local business that’s running a new member recruitment campaign?


Okay can she, we do, we know what kind of new members we’re trying to get. Yes, in general. So like the local business you actually have an advantage as a local business to be honest and the reason is this, you are going to be able to essentially, you’re vying for a very specific customer. You also have additional local businesses kind of channels like Google Small Business, Yelp, there’s something you can actually market that is less general than the majority of the internet out there on the market. So there’s a lot you can do there and I encourage, really encourage you to make sure you have all of your local profiles set up. You have, you’re using things like Thumbtack, Yelp, Angie’s List, all the difference places that kind of spring up and cater to local communities next door. It’s a tremendous one right now for a small business. Just getting int here and kind of putting a post so there’s a lot you can do that the rest of us can’t do because we’re kind of trying to be global audiences in terms of just like getting a successful campaign up and running.


Honestly the best thing that I would do is day one, and this is just not, it’s not a sales pitch for this, is day one do some kind of retargeting. Put a pixel on your site so that you can market to the visitors you are getting. Especially if they’re very targeted people. All the people coming into your shop or people that are visiting your website whatever, like make sure you’re able to kind of re-market to them. Second thing I would do is get the email, some kind of very specific regular email opt-in. So there’s a reason for them to join your thing and then actually do it. Like the best mistake people make is, they get an email capture and they never send something out or if you’re like me you don’t send it out until you have something you’re trying to promote and then you send it out and. you’re like oh, I probably should have sent a few before that with some actual information. Then you do, I would go into social media next, like making sure your social media connects with all your fellow businesses. That includes your LinkedIn, your NextDoor, your Alignable. All the different ones that are kind of there and then just start testing messages. So get very specific. What is the offer, so it’s not like visit my business, it’s not like check my website. It’s if you’re in the area, you get $50 off your next oil change. It’s like very specific and to start systematically trying those and in face, we give way, we give you ad credit if you want to try a couple messages like that. But so I’d kind of go in that order. I don’t know if guys I missed anything.


You know I think that covers a lot of it. I mean something that’s interesting is whenever your take questions like this there’s always, every business is going to be different. And so her case is going to be different than somebody else’s. So again, you just please write in, you can message us something like that, we can talk to you about your specific business if that didn’t quite answer it or if it was a little bit, your case was a little bit different, you know we can talk about yours.


Awesome no yeah. Lisa says that was great. So yeah I think that’s awesome. So we’re happy to help but if you have any more questions definitely reach out. So with that we do have one other question but we will do a follow-up video on Monday with some other, to go over some of these because we’re about out of time for today. So just before we go, we do want to put our little plug in here for our free ad set offer that we’re running, this is still running, so if you are having trouble with ad creative or you just want to get up and starting, up and going with your campaign as quickly as possible, go ahead and visit and let us know that you’re interested and we’ll reach out. And then we do have our next webinar coming up in two weeks as usual on September 3rd. We’ll be doing our next webinar called How to Optimize Your Advertising with Artificial Intelligence and Jalali will be on that one as well, that’s his area of expertise. So if you just want to give a quick should out to that one jalali I think that would be awesome.


Yeah I’m super excited about this one because when you even, when you talk, we talk amongst our peer groups, and we’re trying to optimize, what you realize you’re trying to do is figure out how to work around these automations that are going on. Like how does Facebook figure out conversions and optimize their campaign. And then our other friend has strategies around how’s Google figuring this stuff out and if you just do this at this time and this and this and this then it’ll work better right? So we’re really in this world now where we’re trying to interface all this stuff and I just want to get some context on how those things are working. Like what’s actually going on, it’s actually really not that complicated if you have basic stats in high school or whatever you can follow along, but it’s just I think it’s really critical to understand what’s going on and understand the new landscape. So we’re just hoping to help people. It should be a fun one. We have a couple of guests coming on two weeks from today.


Great yeah no, we’re really excited for that one. So once again that’s going to be in two weeks. You can visit to go ahead and register for that now. And then visit or you can visit that website at any point in between the next two weeks and go ahead and register. But once again if you have any more questions you can throw them in now or you can email us at and with that I think we’re gunna wrap up but thank you Eric, thank you Jajali for your time today. I hope this was really helpful for all of you guys and we had a good time so yeah it was fun. I’ll see you guys next time. Talk to you later guys. Thanks. Thanks Kathleen.

<a href="" target="_self">Kathleen Davis</a>

Kathleen Davis

Digital Marketing Coordinator - Perfect Audience: Kathleen is an enthusiastic marketer experienced in marketing automation, campaign management, and digital analytics. She's previously worked on direct mail campaigns, spear-headed lead generation efforts, and managed a team of interns at SharpSpring.
Post categories: Perfect Audience, Webinars

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